tv Taiwan Outlook PBS October 18, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
>> coming up in the next hour, for the second day in a row, students have taken to the streets in paris over the explosion of a teenager now calling for the french interior minister to resign and that will be one of the topics up for discussion on this friday's edition of the world this week. let's get the latest headlines from molly upstairs in the newsroom. >> thank you, and net. here are the headlines.
an unprecedented note to the united nations. saudi arabia rejecting a seat on the security council saying they have a lot middle eastern issues. signed, sealed, delivered. they finalize a landmark-free trade agreements aiming to boosting growth and unemployment between the two parties and trimming the family tree. they could rewrite evolutionary history. >> but first, kenyan president uhuru kenyatta has been dismissed from most of his trial. he is only required to be present at certain he parts of the case. he is due to go on trial in the hague on charges that you're castrated deadly violence. healing is to be present for certain parts of the trial.
>> he needs to be there for the opening and closing statements. he needs to be there when the ends of the violence give any evidence and at the time of the judgment. and if it happenings, sentencins well. >> how is this move being perceived in kenya? >> very positively. his team sees this as the first concession that the icc has made to the fact that mr. kenyatta is the president of kenya. he has been pushing very strongly for them to see that he needs to be in kenya in order to carry out what the court called today the demanding functions of his office. what i'm concerned about is that some people have already been saying that the government does
not go far enough. >> new video has been released of last month's siege in a nairobi shopping center. gunmen indiscriminately shooting them at the westgate mall. the four day siege left at least 67 people dead and investigators have discovered the charred remains of bodies they say could belong to the attackers but tests are needed for confirmation. meanwhile, it's been revealed one of the suspected attackers is a 23-year-old somalia born norwegian national. an investigation into his exact involvement is ongoing. our to a developing story coming out of france. an ongoing hostage situation at a paris bank. an armed man is reportedly holding one person hostage. he entered the branch of the cic
bank in the 13th district. four people were originally taken hostage at first. there are reports that three of them have since been released in negotiations apparently are ongoing. we will bring you more on the story as it comes into the newsroom. saying no to the united nations. saudi arabia has rejected a seat on the un security council saying the 15-member body is incapable of resolving world conflicts. they say they have not solved problems like the syrian civil war and the iranian palestinian dispute condemning international double standards and demand reform of the council. quick saudi arabia was elected unopposed to a two year term on the security council on thursday with significant support from member states. quick saudi arabia, 176.
>> there was applause. there were handshakes all around. yet have a within hours, the foreign ministry decided not to take up the seat citing un security council failings. the kingdom sees the double standards in the security council prevented from properly shielding during its responsibilities towards world peace. -- properly shouldering its responsibilities. >> this means they lose a strong voice with matters dealing with international security such as syria. they are backing the rebels against bishara al-assad. they spoke in frustration over international and action. they have left the door open to taking up the seat saying there must be reforms. however, they have not said which reforms they want.
>> a women and up to four children killed as their car passed to during the attack in the blast was followed by bursts of gunfire. this is the first major attack in kabul since july of this year. the top commander of the libyan police force has been shot dead. he was killed when unknown gunmen opened fire as he left his home in eastern benghazi. he was on his way to attend fire -- friday prayers. they have seen a rise of militia violence since muammar gaddafi was toppled in 2011. the european union aims to boost talks between the two parties.
>> this is a big deal, the biggest deal we have ever made. this is a historic win for canada. it means access for canadian businesses to half a billion affluent customers and to thousands of jobs for canadians. >> this will boost our trading relations and generate more jobs . it is expected to increase two way bilateral trade in goods and services by 23%, around 26 billion euros. the overall benefits of the agreement expect to raise the level of the annual gdp by approximately 12 billion euros per year.
>> the interior minister of france is cutting short an issue to the west indies to deal with the issue of x felling a roma girl. protests were held when a 15- year-old was taken into police custody during a school field trip. she and her family have since been supported to coast of oh. the move sparked controversy and there are growing calls for the interior minister to resign. >> they marched protesting the deportation of two students and for the second day, there were scuffles with police. the tension has reignited debate over the french immigration policy. earlier this month, this 19- year-old was deported to armenia and this 15-year-old to kosovo. citizens have been stage partially blocking the capital and they condemn the socialist governments move saying instead of being forced to leave the student should have been granted asylum.
>> we deport a 15 and a 19-year- old. there is no future for them where they will be taken. >> much of the controversy is centered on the roma schoolgirl taken off of a bus in front of other students during a class outing where she they were deported from france and the incident has dominated headlines in the country and has caused strains in the socialist government. >> when one is on a school outing, you are part of school life. schools are a sort of sanctuary and that means we cannot intervene during that time. >> they were seeking asylum but all of the formal demands to stay had been denied. some say the decision must the upheld otherwise it could send a message that france is letting them stay.
some of the most vocal critics are calling for the resignation of the interior minister, one of the most popular cabinet members in france. >> teenage education activists cap school on friday but she has a good excuse. the 16-year-old pakistani met with queen elizabeth ii and prince philip at buckingham palace. she is a survivor of a talavera session nation attempt and she gave the queen a copy of her book. -- she is the survivor of a taliban an assassination attempt. finally, scientists in georgia believe they have made a breakthrough in human evolution. after looking at the most complete skull of an early human, they have determined our family tree may have a whole lot less branches than originally believed. quick small brain, large teeth, long face, not that different
from us after all. or years, they held there were multiple human species walking around the earth but this 1.8 million-year-old skull could turn that theory on its head. >> we thought it was a different species in africa and now we realize they are variants of the same species. like they made their findings after looking at the world's most complete hominid skull that was found eight years ago in georgia. it has turned up the largest well preserved remains of early humans. the skull likely along the two erectus but has enough similarities to indicate that they were members of the same species instead of two separate ones. though others may feel reject the claim, the researchers believe that evidence is in hand. >> that is it from us in the
newsroom. now back to annette for the world this week. >> thank you. welcome to the world this week. we have four journalists chewing the fat over what has been making headlines in the last seven days. joining me now, paris correspondent and former senior correspondent with french television. reformer with the french newsweek and our very own international affairs editor. hello and thanks for being with us. a reminder to you, the viewer, you can tell us what you're thinking. tweet using #twtw. the french interior minister is cutting short an overseas trip as they are coming under growing pressure of the roma teenage
girl. for the second day in a row, they have taken to the streets in paris in angry protests. being taking into police custody during a school field trip. she and her family have since been deported to coast of oh. growing calls for the interior minister to resign and for hollande to take a stand. >> to the president, i want to say i left fliers at every door for people to vote for you. me, my father, my mother, we left fliers for people to vote for you and i don't know why he has sent us back to coast of oh. i want to tell him to get us back to france as soon as possible because i don't want to miss more of my school.
>> many had expected the president to adopt a far less confrontational approach with the roma community compared to that of his predecessor, nicolas sarkozy. it seems as though things have not really changed. >> during the campaign, immigration is always a strong ideological marker. but with the reality, it is what appears to be an unconscionable problem to resolve. they are coming in from outside of their schooling should be taken care of by their own governments which just dumps them across the borders. this has become a very acerbic problem amongst frenchmen because the left reacts in a very ideological manner.
the structure of the party but not necessarily the voters who are pretty matter what's going on and being stalked on the street, the bus, the metro, the bank. the cleaners, the supermarket, people trying to rob them and begging. this is not just a problem that can be ignored. >> the trigger in this whole thing is the roma. as soon as you mention that word it has all kinds of connotations for the french. among all of the nationalities every year, they are the most highly represented. it is not just in france. they have the same reputation across europe. in france where everyone is already feeling under siege, they're looking for easy targets. they make for an extremely easy target. >> would you say they are among the french most detested people?
>> we've been speaking the past few days with bulgaria, romania, hungary, and let's not even talk about the czech republic where they are so detested that they are called gypsies and they are thrown into special schools because they are not culturally integrated. they are considered mentally backward and they are perfectly capable and intelligent most of the time. the discrimination is down to the level and they are perceived as being different. it is not merely a french issue. >> there's been a long-standing debate about illegal immigrants and deportation. >> this is exactly the same when sarkozy was in power. there was such a strong stance
on immigration policy. this kid was taken off a bus with all of her friends and put on a plane and sent app to coast of oh. that is what is really touching a nerve. you see kids and they are really nervous and there is lots of manipulation but they are 15, 16. this is the worst nightmare for the french government because they are emotional. you cannot easily control them and they can be easily infiltrated by any type of thugs or hooligans so this is really a huge nightmare and that is why the interior minister is coming over very soon from his trip in the west indies.
>> this is a european buckshot. the children or just the father and coast of oh. on so many levels, it seems to be an enormous mess. >> legally, you cannot support them because they are under 18. it is a kind of administrative rule, not legal the kind of. at the same time, when the head of the family is deported you deport the whole family. that has been the habit of the french administration and it is not appropriate and it touches zehner because we are in a climate where you can see that racism is building up in people are starting to get worried about it. it does not send the right signal to the left. >> they seem to be very silent. >> the universe has been implicating about what they are saying about the roma.
of course, the people on the left are worried about it. they don't understand the government anymore on that issue. the people on the left have voted for this government and for things to change for the minorities. if things don't change and we are still chasing them in the streets, that's not the left policy. that something different. >> the vast majority of them cannot integrate into french society and that was the statement they made. >> that's what you have to worry about. that is one of the reasons he is being silent. >> a lot of people assimilate, for example, the arabs, the
jews, all kinds of minorities saying that this is the same problem. someone who was born in algeria and who knows the muslim war well, the are really very specific because they are invasive in terms of behavior. they come to people's place and stop them all day. it is not as though they are in a faraway suburb. >> i can tell you, i have witnessed personally -- >> it's the same thing. >> i can tell you -- >> they are a really easy target. they are not organized. >> they are organized. >> the european union has a
budget. a huge wave of racism in the 80's and 90's. a lot of laws of good. they are not perfect. there are still lots of problems but they have been working and we could look at them. first of all, there was an understanding -- >> jews have been put into leaders. >> what does this say about france? the fact that we are having this debate in 2013, what does this say? >> it's not only about france, i'm sorry. >> this is a french network and we broadcast out of paris. what does this say? >> nothing special about france
but something about your about the time where the political environment has changed, the economic environment has changed and people are on edge, you see? it is not something specific to france. in france, the problem is very ideologically considered because of our tradition. the self -- myself, i'm extremely surprised because i've been living around all sorts of people and i've never felt like that i may you see? this is what is happening. >> it's a vicious cycle with the integration issue. the irony of this girls deportation, she is now sleeping with her family on a bench and coast of oh. she does not speak the language, zero albanian. she speaks french.
when they first got there, she had no place. it makes it no better. there is this notion that you send them back to their country of origin where they belong. she belongs in france. that is where she felt at home and the students marching on the streets said she believed they should stay. >> i fully agree. the process was extremely awkward. for once in my life, i may defend a french minister. i think he is the minister of law and order randy's doing his job. all of the legal options have been exhausted in that case. >> he cannot afford people under 18. it's illegal. >> that may come back to the way in which the government is handling this issue. we have been talking about how you saw this as a time to -- as
a tactic. as you were saying, sending a clear message to an interior minister who is much more popular than any of his peers, is this a tactic that can backfire? >> he's trying to control the minister and send a signal that he should not get too ambitious to soon. this way of attacking the left is really a way for francois hollande to attack. he is waiting for this wave two received and the minister to be weakened and it would be good for him because this minister was attacking his position as president symbolically. >> he's playing with fire. >> all the time. they have still decided that like in the 1980's we can push them to the front and divide the
right. that is not the case anymore. >> i'm not sure. they have spoken in a statement. it's very embarrassing because they have municipal elections next year. the matter with the socialist party thanks, no matter the ideology, no matter the tradition, there is a problem in the streets and people react to that weather socialist, whether they voted for a longer or not. you are right. this is a very chaotic government. completely unmanaged. alexei agree. i believe that he is a little
bit hocowed. they are on the sign of the hardliners. when he says the law is the law, that is how they feel. even as a socialist in the tradition, he tends for his natural inclination to have a more humanitarian view. >> i'm sorry. let me just press the pause button. we are joined by our media watch editor has the has been scanning -- who has been scanning social media. >> we are on day two or three of this debate, still quite the issue on french social media. they have done a panoramic
around the country as well that has been involved in this arcade and you can see a lot of these images that have been unrolling, news channels as well. a lot of people commenting on the issue. this is a quote from the former culture minister back in 2005. a high school children are like toothpaste. once you squeeze them out how you will not get them back. there are fears that the demonstrations could go on and on but the flipside is that school holiday from tomorrow evening so at least the high school people will refuse the chance to go on holiday. this is the sort of thing you finding on twitter as well. grouping together and showing how delighted these high school students were to have a chance to get out of class for a few hours and some of them saying blockading the school on friday is no good. they are going on strike so they
don't have to go to school. somewhat cynically putting up those and saying really how an excuse to get out of school than these to tear goal -- the satirical showing misspelled signs. others in the political world such as the former political presidential candidate for a very his smile left party said that they are perhaps being manipulated by far left parties who are unhappy with the center- right interior minister ran this is sort of vengeance in some sense. they could be manipulated and others are saying not at all. they are out demonstrating to have fun but the vast majority are out there and they really are committed to the cause, so
to speak. just a quick lookup the front page of the left-leaning paper this morning. mr. president, explain yourself, basically, on the issue of the roma and deportations the cosi has not spoken despite the fact that his partner has saying there are some borders you don't cross, one being the front door of a school. a lot of people are waiting for the president to clarify his positions. >> we are going to have to press a pause button. we will be back for the second part of the world this week. >> hello and welcome back. issuing an unprecedented no to
the united nations, saudi arabia does not want a seat on the secured counsel saying they have failed on middle east issues. the eu and canada formalize a trade agreement to boost growth and employment. to a developing story coming out of paris, an ongoing hostage situation at a bank and a man is holding two people hostage and demanding a negotiator. he entered the cic bank in the 13th district and is demanding housing for himself and his son. we will bring you more details at the top of the hour. welcome back to the second part of the world this week where four paris-based journalists get to choose a fat over what has been making headlines. joining me now is the following --
and our very own international affairs editor douglas herbert. you can also tell us what you think about what we are talking about. tweet using #twtw. a sigh of relief from washington could be well and truly heard across the world after finally signing off on a deal to lift the debt ceiling. gradually coming back to life after this shutdown and it was a bruising political battle. republicans looking more and more like losers after accusations that hardliners had trashed the reputation. this is certainly not a done deal, as we know. it will rear its ugly head again early next year. >> obama is very good at this
political game. the strategy seems not to be possible anymore. maybe there is time to see this pkind of shutdown strategy from republicans. they ended up in a very bad position in the polls and they are not so far from the next election so that is really good for obama. >> we hope. from your mouth to god's ears is what they say. that we don't find ourselves in the exact same scenario a couple of us down the road. essentially we have a temporary reprieve. it temporarily funds the government. >> a lot of people say would be suicide to play the same hand again and to use this to extract political concessions and threat of the fault of the biggest economy. they are likely not to do it again. part of this agreement was
forming the super budget to midi to try to reconcile budget plans and they want to do that by mid december. they have not been able to do it and they are extremely far apart on the very most basic issues on how to get revenue. >> basically coming together ran bridging the chasm between now and early next year is extremely unlikely. >> on paper, they are saying they want to find common ground. the democrat and republican will be heading up this committee and say we are committed to finding common ground. they would say that. it's the politically correct thing to say. when you look at the actual positions and how they want to raise revenue, nothing seems to be working and they have this thing called the sequester, which i'm sure you could explain as well. it is budget cutting by cleaver rather than a scalpel.
>> up until now, the head of the house republicans speaker, he was under the gun from the minority and the extremist minority. the attacks were so violent. now, i think there are enough arguments to tell them, look, i have been following your extremist line and this is where it has taken us. now you let me run the thing if you don't want to be on the losing side. >> in your opinion, john boehner is a winner in that he has gained the upper hand? >> he may have gotten the upper hand but i'm not sure. >> i don't know. there are many things at stake here. the republicans may have lost popularity right now, but at midterm elections they will have
enough money because they have a whole class of very rich -- money is the driver today in any election. the second thing, the whole thing started with obamacare for the majority of americans. they were against it and so were the very conservative millionaires. the program is going to go back right now and we are going to see how it's going to go into effect. if it works, it will come up again in a few months for the budget ceiling and then the republicans will be out of arguments. if it does not work and it's a screwup, as it seems it's going to be in its implementation, then they will have other arguments. >> implementation was difficult
but european standards is very poor. >> would you agree that they have come off second best? >> and they themselves are saying -- >> is it a broken party? >> you use the word extremist. it is this ultra conservative base and it is not just the tea party that wanted to link the defunding of obamacare to the shutdown of the government. others were involved. here's the problem with the tea party. they would say that the problem is that they are blind to facts. you cannot have any rational debate to them. they see what they want to see and if you do present them with what you think is a cohesive argument, they say no. the problem right now with the tea parties they were elected in
what is called gerrymandered districts. there is no interest. worse than not losing is that there is no incentive for them to listen. >> even a donkey could elect you in. >> this is a systemic problem. this dysfunctional manner of doing business and politics it has become a systemic problem. as long as there is no growth, there will be so much increased competition for power and congress and the lobby so that this will not stop. the basic factor is the way that the primary system and the selection of candidates works in the united states. as long as you have parties that can make their own laws and state parties that can make their own laws, heavy financing
and very often acknowledged financing, mysterious financing, extremist parties will be able to cinch perhaps not the nomination as was the case with mitt romney but they will be able to cinch a number of things in terms of the ideological package of the party over the majority of their own party and then do more business at the time of local elections. >> the whole thing with the budget cut, the expenses cut in the united states. who are they kidding? 2008, american debt was like $10 trillion and five years later it is $16 trillion. i come from a country where people are broke. that is no budget cut. >> in light of what you just
said, how much damage as this done to america's image abroad? >> no damage to the american image. it could be popular, this system in france. we love the two parties to work together and confront together. we might love this shutdown in france. >> it is a concept that would be very popular in france. >> the two parties and one could block the other, that would be popular. >> i disagree. we deal with a strong president because they undervalue the power of congress, the enormous power of congress and its different lobbies so this is quite a shock that suddenly a powerful american system of government is dysfunctional and it does not work.
at the international level, it's terrible when you have a small band of zealots that are able to prevent the president of the united states to sit as a peer with a region that is going to be pivotable for american democracy and they have always had a key security role and the president just cannot come? this is incredible. look at this from asia, america has become critical than the chinese are -- >> that's democracy. >> if they envied or admired one aspect or at least the founding fathers idea, it is the notion of checks and balances and it sounds pretty good on paper. judicial, legislative, and executive branch but the problem now is we only have checks and no balance. >> you are the winners and
losers in this whole affair? >> the republicans would agree with themselves, they came out and they miscalculated. they do not believe that they should have ever used what is obama's signature legacy achievement, the healthcare law, as leverage in order to advance their narrow political and if you want to call it that. they lost in the poll ratings went down and no one comes out looking great and overall americans hate congress and they think it's dysfunctional. if you have to narrow it down to a party, sure, the republicans lost. >> the big loser is the world of america in terms of security agreements, commitments to their international obligations, tradition.
people for a long time were always looking to america to make a decision. sometimes in a very foolish manner, like the middle east, they think america will bring out a new plug every day. people look to america even if it is only the first major power and not a superpower anymore. this is an extraordinary consequence of the way that congress is run. >> obama has been the best in this political battle and waiting long enough in order for this to collapse by itself. that's good politics. cliques for the time being, the republicans are the losers. >> time to move onto another topic and a resurgent kremlin seems to be looking at the agenda when it comes to major world issues. president vladimir putin's chief
opponent walked free after they suspended the five-year sentence for theft but it will prevent him from seeking elected office for several years at least. regardless, putin seems to have regained some of his swagger. greenpeace activists are put behind bars and the kremlin is banning lithuanian cheese imports for hosting the eu summit. not to mention, a harsh crackdown on illegal immigrants. first to you, doug. you have worked in moscow. would you say that this division is somewhat of a concession despite the fact we're seeing all these crackdowns in various areas? >> vladimir putin has said this but russian justice is totally independent and i have nothing to do with the decision. unofficially, it's a concession. it is not a major concession.
he cuts a very unique figure among the opposition in the sense that he is the first one who has shown that putin is perhaps not invincible. he is respect did buy the types of people who might respect putin because only one hand he is a real patriot and a fervent nationalist. and a lot of people on the left and opposition russia don't like that aspect but at the same time, he has been fiercely independent with his blogging, anticorruption campaign, the very things leading to him being in this courtroom. when he goes home at night, he sees elements of his own personality in him and perhaps says this is a man than i can sort of identify with and he knows in his heart of hearts that this is a man who could be a viable person. they are not there yet. he will not pose a threat this year or next.
he is unique among the opposition in that because of his likeness to putin in many ways. >> at the same time, police arresting illegal immigrants, what does it say about the mindset of the russian government? >> i want to go back to what we were saying. i don't think putin has admiration for his rival because two alpha males can -- i think he can fear him but if putin could put him away forever he would. >> they want to be able to link a political force to a machine
and a party. they realize they had not seen it coming because it was informal. pretty much the way that the internet works. in two years time in terms of political permanence to the russian at large went from six percent to 51% and prominence. this is extremely disquieting. >> and he got 27% and he came in with all of the financing and the party structure behind. >> they are saying that he is being a control freak and that is one thing that obviously unsettled him. i want to come back to this and i will open it up to all of you. you have this smashing the vegetable market it at the same time, the police cracking down and arresting schools of illegal
immigrants. what does this say? >> 1200. >> they have always been chased by people who love violence. it's a common habit in russia. it has been the case for many years. it's not getting better, obviously. this scapegoating thing, we see this in france and every country in europe. next european elections will be devastating among europe. >> you cannot forget that in the soviet union, people could not travel coming from the republics that are now independent and those are being the people crackdown in russia and they will have to have special kind of internal passports in order to travel.
with all of the difficulties in russia with the very unfair distribution of riches in the country that will not be stopped -- or by prudent, if you'd prefer, having this scapegoat as the guide who maybe has darker skin, different guys, different hair. >> it's undeniable that there is a major immigration problem. it gets 90% of the investment in russia. we have not said the words yet and they need to be said. these are not just migrants. they were from central asia, from the caucus. they are the blacks. they are always that. basically, what it means is if you read the between the lines from my experience living in russia, if you are not pale skinned, white, slavic, russian.
>> it's very different. >> it's interesting to point out something else that pertains here. i think the analysis was very good and its relationship to putin. people in the west tend to see him as the bad guy on the right. in russian terms, he is more at the center with a lot of people to the right and then the grand old communist party -- i'm not sure i would say that. it would not be very nice. let me finish this. from the west, he might be perceived as the blogger, a liberal guy who hits the bad guy, but as douglas pointed out he is not only a nationalist that he is anti-somatic -- anti- somaemitic. if you follow what he or his
supporters say or when he writes on his blogs, he is not mr. nice guy. just a new generation and he has this political animus that they recognize. >> they are interested in literally or figuratively chopping him off at the knees. i do want to ask you a question. with who are throwing his weight about, is there anybody out there in the international community willing to take him on? >> well, you see, who managed to turn -- first of all, he gave the russian something they wanted or 10 years. he restored pride in russia after years of turmoil where russia had lost its empire, its clout, but he has failed to restore some clarity and financing.
this is the internal problem that who will face. in terms of international relations, he had a sprawling power and because he was very clever, he has turned this into a new card where he is someone that you cannot bypass anymore. whether people like him or not is not the problem, you see. >> should the eu be worried? >> about putin? not at all. it is not an eu problem. it is an internal russian problem. is russia able to go to a democracy? that is the question we have in mind. obviously it is tragic to see they're going from the soviet union to the situation where nobody wins except putin and some people around him.
it is not democracy. it is like a two ran a christian name. it is not really pleasing to see that russia is such a great nation. it has all of these availabilities and it is reduced to that little spot democratically wise and it is sad. >> i agree with that, by the way. every people about the country, amazingly educated, they are artists, musicians and yet you have this rotten to the core corrupt government that tarnishes the image. >> my stepfather is russian. >> the kremlin is sending out a very clear message. do you think given the amount of angst over the lesbian and gay issue, the fact that we have journalists in jail, this dutch
diplomat be not. they're starting to be enough angst out there that there could be a boycott? >> i personally don't think there will be a boycott. i could be wrong. there was one in 1980 over afghanistan. this is what they have learned, the russian under siege mentality. it is the great error that lashes out at the world. for the various reasons we have been alluding to. >> treating greenpeace and others, that goes down well with russian public opinion.
>> some are saying that united states have retreated from being the strong arm of the world. there is saying that it may be a very exaggerated way that they're becoming isolationist again. i think there is some kind of satisfaction for putin and for moscow in these affairs and i think it will smooth things out for not having any kind of boycott talks. >> talking about this new superpower that russia has become. >> isn't that the reality that russia and china are authoritarian countries who really don't want to endure being in other countries affairs because they themselves -- >> tomorrow maybe they will
intervene in countries and we don't know what will happen. you never know. >> in georgia, they were not exactly working on that. secondly, concerning the united states role as a police officer, it may be an important piece on the board but not strategically important to the united states. >> i'm terribly sorry. we've run out of time. i have to thank you for a most entertaining discussion that i feel will keep going in the corridor outside of the studio. let me thank my guests. anna, douglas. and that's it for "the world this week." more news and headlines are coming up after a short right. -- short break.